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Regarding the theories about Cybertron starting out life as either a organic or metalic planet.


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#1 Shadowpanther

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 02:17 PM

It's worth a serious mention. that if "ONE" watches all those Science documentary type shows on cable. That feauture actual scientist with college degrees in this field. All the planets in the universe are made from the same exact suff that earth has.

So their is no such thing as a planet that can be created out of 100% metal.

to make matters worse,to create metal,steel,titanium & other metals. these things need to go thru a rigourous defining & shaping process. because when their dug out from the earth their in rock/ore forms.

Plannet cybertron in the 1980's G-1 cartoon was hinted at as once having a organic core. in that season 2 episode,megatron brings the key to vector sigma to earth & tries to remake earth into a metalic world like cybertron. in that G-1 cartoon episode,the key of vector sigma was hinted at as to what made cybertron the metalic world it became.

In beastmachines cartoon,the origin stories regading cybertron once being a organic world that got changed into a metalic world. the Beastmachines writers are following what the 1980's TF G-1 writers first created. by having the key to vector sigma & the plasma energy key as having special powers & the abilty to do things beyond the normal.

In the marvel TF USA comics,both primus & unicron crashed into planets. thru time both primus & unicron escaped their planet prisions by reforming/reshaping the planets they crashed into. unicron was able to use his god like powers to reshape his planet into a metalic one & into a huge metalic robot mode. primus was able to use his god like powers reshape his planet into a metalic one & create children.

Edited by Shadowpanther, 24 March 2012 - 02:18 PM.


#2 Breaker

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 07:56 PM

Dear god.

First of all it's fictional. Secondly Cybertron was formed by no natural means. It is the body of Primus and it is shaped to his will. Thirdly, it's fictional.

#3 Lord_Onslaught

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 08:18 PM

This should be interesting in the end.

But it is accepted that Cybertron is the body of Primus which was established in the G1 Comic and is generally accepted by all fans

#4 Shadowpanther

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 08:33 PM

This should be interesting in the end.

But it is accepted that Cybertron is the body of Primus which was established in the G1 Comic and is generally accepted by all fans


According to simon furman who created the Primus origin stories in the TF G-1 Marvel comics. Simon furman created a huge book called "the ultimate guide". in this ultimate guide book simon furman explains that the "one" created both primus & unicron. both unicron & primus fought. both unicron & primus smashed into nearby planets/asteroids. for years both primus & unicron were imprisioned in their planets/asteroids. Unicron found a way to make his planet/asteroid transform into a gigantic robot mode. Primus re-created his planet & created children called the transformers.

The planet cybertron didn't form around primus's body like the planet earth formed around unicron's body in the TF Prime cartoon series. in the marvel TF G-1 comics it's clearly shown primus smashed into a already existing planet & primus is wedged deep inside a already existing planet.

Primus most likely smashed into a organic planet. since primus & unicron had god like powers given to them by the "one". primus was able to use his god like powers to transform a organic planet/asteroid into a metalic world called cybertron.

The "one" that simon furman refers to in his ultimate guide book. many on-line internet TF fans assume is GOD. as in the God of the religious earth bible.

Edited by Shadowpanther, 24 March 2012 - 08:33 PM.


#5 Lord_Onslaught

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 08:45 PM


This should be interesting in the end.

But it is accepted that Cybertron is the body of Primus which was established in the G1 Comic and is generally accepted by all fans


According to simon furman who created the Primus origin stories in the TF G-1 Marvel comics. Simon furman created a huge book called "the ultimate guide". in this ultimate guide book simon furman explains that the "one" created both primus & unicron. both unicron & primus fought. both unicron & primus smashed into nearby planets/asteroids. for years both primus & unicron were imprisioned in their planets/asteroids. Unicron found a way to make his planet/asteroid transform into a gigantic robot mode. Primus re-created his planet & created children called the transformers.

The planet cybertron didn't form around primus's body like the planet earth formed around unicron's body in the TF Prime cartoon series. in the marvel TF G-1 comics it's clearly shown primus smashed into a already existing planet & primus is wedged deep inside a already existing planet.

Primus most likely smashed into a organic planet. since primus & unicron had god like powers given to them by the "one". primus was able to use his god like powers to transform a organic planet/asteroid into a metalic world called cybertron.

The "one" that simon furman refers to in his ultimate guide book. many on-line internet TF fans assume is GOD. as in the God of the religious earth bible.


It wasn't a planet that Primus crashed into. It was an Asteroid just like what Happened to Unicron. Primus remolded the Asteroid and used its components to help build Cybertron into his new body.
What happened in TF Prime with Unicron has no bearing here, so no bearing on Primus doing the same. TF Prime is inconsequential.
Simon Furman says the One created Primus and Unicron and I accept that, since it is coming from Simon Furman.
What on-line fans think is "The One" has no bearing here either, since it is not coming from Simon Furman.

#6 Shadowpanther

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:05 PM



This should be interesting in the end.

But it is accepted that Cybertron is the body of Primus which was established in the G1 Comic and is generally accepted by all fans


According to simon furman who created the Primus origin stories in the TF G-1 Marvel comics. Simon furman created a huge book called "the ultimate guide". in this ultimate guide book simon furman explains that the "one" created both primus & unicron. both unicron & primus fought. both unicron & primus smashed into nearby planets/asteroids. for years both primus & unicron were imprisioned in their planets/asteroids. Unicron found a way to make his planet/asteroid transform into a gigantic robot mode. Primus re-created his planet & created children called the transformers.

The planet cybertron didn't form around primus's body like the planet earth formed around unicron's body in the TF Prime cartoon series. in the marvel TF G-1 comics it's clearly shown primus smashed into a already existing planet & primus is wedged deep inside a already existing planet.

Primus most likely smashed into a organic planet. since primus & unicron had god like powers given to them by the "one". primus was able to use his god like powers to transform a organic planet/asteroid into a metalic world called cybertron.

The "one" that simon furman refers to in his ultimate guide book. many on-line internet TF fans assume is GOD. as in the God of the religious earth bible.


It wasn't a planet that Primus crashed into. It was an Asteroid just like what Happened to Unicron. Primus remolded the Asteroid and used its components to help build Cybertron into his new body.
What happened in TF Prime with Unicron has no bearing here, so no bearing on Primus doing the same. TF Prime is inconsequential.
Simon Furman says the One created Primus and Unicron and I accept that, since it is coming from Simon Furman.
What on-line fans think is "The One" has no bearing here either, since it is not coming from Simon Furman.


I wrote planet/asteroid in my reply you quoted. when I write this " / " in my reply it means one or the other.

When I mentioned the TF Prime,unicron origins in my reply you quoted. I wasn't saying this is what happened to G-1 unicron & primus. I was saying "This TF Prime,unicron origin story,is what "DIDN'T HAPPEN" With simon furmans's version of primus & unicron's origins.

The "one" needed to be mentioned & is consequential. because the "one",when he created both primus & unicron. the "one" created two huge metalic robots with god like powers. the "one" needs to be mentioned in this thread. because both unicron & primus smashed into asteroids. had the "one" not created primus & unicron in metalic robot forms. both primus & unicron would have never shaped their asteriod prisions into metalic planets. it's because of the "one" giving primus & unicron god like powers they were able to re-shape their asteriod prisions into something better.

Edited by Shadowpanther, 24 March 2012 - 09:13 PM.


#7 Breaker

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 10:32 PM

"Before the dawn of time, Order and Chaos existed within an extra-dimensional entity known as The One. To explore the fledgling universe, he created the astral being known as Unicron, and then subdivided him, creating his twin, Primus. Both brothers were multiversal singularities, unique in all realities, but whereas Unicron could only exist in one universe at a time, moving between them at will, Primus existed simultaneously in all realities at once. It is suggested, in fact, that the two brothers embody the basic concepts of reality—good and evil, order and chaos—and that their continued existence is necessary for the stability of the multiverse."

Be at peace with this. I'm not sure how what anyone is saying is relevant to the topic:

Shadowpanther said: So their is no such thing as a planet that can be created out of 100% metal.


For a celestial body to be classified as a planet it must have orbit around a star, a shape that is stable due to its own gravity and one that has a dominant path over neighboring bodies in it's orbit.

Asteroids are not classified as planets. Primus slammed into an Asteroid and reshaped it to his favor. To be classified as an asteroid it only needs to have an orbit and mass and otherwise not fulfill the requirements to be a planet, dwarf planet, moon or comet. With that being said, it is not unfathomable to find an asteroid comprised entirely of metal that is large enough to contain a massive cosmic entity of unlimited power. Also, he has unlimited power, he could bring metal from elsewhere or who is to say that he could not simply re-arrange molecules and create the metals he desired from other raw materials (such as the key to Vector Sigma does). Also remember that Cybertron isn't Primus' first rodeo. He first experimented on Methuselah's moon Protos.

There is no theory to the origin of Cybertron, we know it. In summation: The One made Primus, Primus smashed into as Asteroid which he then shaped into a planetoid body later called Cybertron. The end.

And also not all planets are comprised of the same materials found on Earth. Some are completely devoid of various things. For instance it is impossible to know whether or not Jupiter has a surface. It could be a highly dense ball of gas. Saturn is actually less dense then water and would float if you could get it into a body of water large enough. Suffice it to say the universe hold infinite inpossibilities. To claim we know "all" of anything is laughable.

I want everyone to take home this homework. Read it carefully.

One googol is presumed to be greater than the number of hydrogen atoms in the observable universe, which has been variously estimated to be between 1079 and 1081.[4] A googol is also greater than the number of Planck times elapsed since the Big Bang, which is estimated at about 8×1060.[5] Thus in the physical world it is difficult to give examples of numbers that compare to the vastly greater googolplex. In analyzing quantum states and black holes, physicist Don Page writes that "determining experimentally whether or not information is lost down black holes of solar mass ... would require more than measurements to give a rough determination of the final density matrix after a black hole evaporates".[6] The end of the Universe via Big Freeze without proton decay is subject to be years into the future, which is still short of a googolplex.
In a separate article, Page shows that the number of states in a black hole with a mass roughly equivalent to the Andromeda Galaxy is in the range of a googolplex.[3]
years (~ googolplex years) — scale of an estimated Poincaré recurrence time for the quantum state of a hypothetical box containing a black hole with the mass within the presently visible region of our universe.[7] This time assumes a statistical model subject to Poincaré recurrence. A much simplified way of thinking about this time is in a model where our universe's history repeats itself arbitrarily many times due to properties of statistical mechanics, this is the time scale when it will first be somewhat similar (for a reasonable choice of "similar") to its current state again.
years (~ googolplex years) — scale of an estimated Poincaré recurrence time for the quantum state of a hypothetical box containing a black hole with the estimated mass of the entire universe, observable or not, assuming a certain inflationary model with an inflaton whose mass is 10−6 Planck masses.[7]
If the entire volume of the observable universe (taken to be 3 × 1080 m3) were packed solid with fine dust particles about 1.5 micrometres in size, then the number of different ways of ordering these particles (that is, assigning the number 1 to one particle, then the number 2 to another particle, and so on until all particles are numbered) would be approximately one googolplex.


Essentially you would have better odds of finding an ACTUAL Cybertron, or an exact duplicate of Earth where EVERYTHING was the same right down to you as one of it's residents... BEFORE you reached a googolplex. It makes you contemplate your place in the universe and really realize how trivial debating the origins of a fictional planet may be.

#8 Lord_Onslaught

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 10:47 PM

I wrote planet/asteroid in my reply you quoted. when I write this " / " in my reply it means one or the other.

When I mentioned the TF Prime,unicron origins in my reply you quoted. I wasn't saying this is what happened to G-1 unicron & primus. I was saying "This TF Prime,unicron origin story,is what "DIDN'T HAPPEN" With simon furmans's version of primus & unicron's origins.

The "one" needed to be mentioned & is consequential. because the "one",when he created both primus & unicron. the "one" created two huge metalic robots with god like powers. the "one" needs to be mentioned in this thread. because both unicron & primus smashed into asteroids. had the "one" not created primus & unicron in metalic robot forms. both primus & unicron would have never shaped their asteriod prisions into metalic planets. it's because of the "one" giving primus & unicron god like powers they were able to re-shape their asteriod prisions into something better.


Reread what I said about "The One" Simon Furman has never said anything about it being god. So what online fans say it is is inconsequential. All Simon has said is it is the "Sentient Core of the Universe." Not god
you say planet/asteroid. I am correcting you because it was an Asteroid that Primus got stuck in just like Unicron got stuck in one. Not a planet, so there was no need to do the whole Planet/Asteroid thing
TF Prime should not have even been mentioned as it is the G1 Marvel Origin Version that is accepted for all continuities regarding Primus and Unicron
The One did not create, "Two Huge Metallic Robots." The one created Unicron and Primus. It was after both Unicron and Primus got stuck in their respective asteroids. That they each created their own robot forms.

EDIT - By the way Shadowpanther, you said planet with no mention of asteroid in your first post :wave

Edited by Lord_Onslaught, 24 March 2012 - 10:50 PM.


#9 Shadowpanther

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 11:07 PM

"Before the dawn of time, Order and Chaos existed within an extra-dimensional entity known as The One. To explore the fledgling universe, he created the astral being known as Unicron, and then subdivided him, creating his twin, Primus. Both brothers were multiversal singularities, unique in all realities, but whereas Unicron could only exist in one universe at a time, moving between them at will, Primus existed simultaneously in all realities at once. It is suggested, in fact, that the two brothers embody the basic concepts of reality—good and evil, order and chaos—and that their continued existence is necessary for the stability of the multiverse."

Be at peace with this. I'm not sure how what anyone is saying is relevant to the topic:

Shadowpanther said: So their is no such thing as a planet that can be created out of 100% metal.


For a celestial body to be classified as a planet it must have orbit around a star, a shape that is stable due to its own gravity and one that has a dominant path over neighboring bodies in it's orbit.

Asteroids are not classified as planets. Primus slammed into an Asteroid and reshaped it to his favor. To be classified as an asteroid it only needs to have an orbit and mass and otherwise not fulfill the requirements to be a planet, dwarf planet, moon or comet. With that being said, it is not unfathomable to find an asteroid comprised entirely of metal that is large enough to contain a massive cosmic entity of unlimited power. Also, he has unlimited power, he could bring metal from elsewhere or who is to say that he could not simply re-arrange molecules and create the metals he desired from other raw materials (such as the key to Vector Sigma does). Also remember that Cybertron isn't Primus' first rodeo. He first experimented on Methuselah's moon Protos.

There is no theory to the origin of Cybertron, we know it. In summation: The One made Primus, Primus smashed into as Asteroid which he then shaped into a planetoid body later called Cybertron. The end.

And also not all planets are comprised of the same materials found on Earth. Some are completely devoid of various things. For instance it is impossible to know whether or not Jupiter has a surface. It could be a highly dense ball of gas. Saturn is actually less dense then water and would float if you could get it into a body of water large enough. Suffice it to say the universe hold infinite inpossibilities. To claim we know "all" of anything is laughable.

I want everyone to take home this homework. Read it carefully.

One googol is presumed to be greater than the number of hydrogen atoms in the observable universe, which has been variously estimated to be between 1079 and 1081.[4] A googol is also greater than the number of Planck times elapsed since the Big Bang, which is estimated at about 8×1060.[5] Thus in the physical world it is difficult to give examples of numbers that compare to the vastly greater googolplex. In analyzing quantum states and black holes, physicist Don Page writes that "determining experimentally whether or not information is lost down black holes of solar mass ... would require more than measurements to give a rough determination of the final density matrix after a black hole evaporates".[6] The end of the Universe via Big Freeze without proton decay is subject to be years into the future, which is still short of a googolplex.
In a separate article, Page shows that the number of states in a black hole with a mass roughly equivalent to the Andromeda Galaxy is in the range of a googolplex.[3]
years (~ googolplex years) — scale of an estimated Poincaré recurrence time for the quantum state of a hypothetical box containing a black hole with the mass within the presently visible region of our universe.[7] This time assumes a statistical model subject to Poincaré recurrence. A much simplified way of thinking about this time is in a model where our universe's history repeats itself arbitrarily many times due to properties of statistical mechanics, this is the time scale when it will first be somewhat similar (for a reasonable choice of "similar") to its current state again.
years (~ googolplex years) — scale of an estimated Poincaré recurrence time for the quantum state of a hypothetical box containing a black hole with the estimated mass of the entire universe, observable or not, assuming a certain inflationary model with an inflaton whose mass is 10−6 Planck masses.[7]
If the entire volume of the observable universe (taken to be 3 × 1080 m3) were packed solid with fine dust particles about 1.5 micrometres in size, then the number of different ways of ordering these particles (that is, assigning the number 1 to one particle, then the number 2 to another particle, and so on until all particles are numbered) would be approximately one googolplex.


Essentially you would have better odds of finding an ACTUAL Cybertron, or an exact duplicate of Earth where EVERYTHING was the same right down to you as one of it's residents... BEFORE you reached a googolplex. It makes you contemplate your place in the universe and really realize how trivial debating the origins of a fictional planet may be.


In my reply in this thread. I said,it might have been a planet or asteriod that primus smashed into. I have that simon furman ultimate guide book & my memory was a bit fuzzy,since I hadn't re-read it in years. Sorry,I was too lazy to dig thru my boxes & look for the simon furman ultimate guide book.

everyone knows asteriods are tiny remnants of what once use to be a planet before it either exploded or collided into another planet. when the planets were first created they were all super hot & it took them a long time to cool off. our solar system had more than 9 planets at one time. various planets in our solar system crashed into each other while they were super hot & formed bigger planets. earth is the only planet in our solar system that hasn't lost it's atmosphere yet. a atmosphere shields the planet the suns harmful effects.

I've watched several universe sciece documentaries on various cable channels. everything is made of the same stuff in the universe. everything has or had at one point the same building blocks.

I never said every planet in our solar system or in the universe has the same exact conditions. i'm fully aware of all the planets current conditions in our solar system. building blocks materials is different than planets current conditions.

it's debattable within the scientific community how old everything is in the universe. it's debattable if their was life on the other 7 or 8 planets in our solar system at one point in existance many years ago. i said 7 or 8 planets in our solar system because the scientist keep removing & adding pluto as a planet & asteriod every few years.

i'm aware of the unique conditions that exist on staurn's moon called titan.

As I clearly stated in my thread starter in this thread. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR A METALIC PLANET TO EXIST IN REAL LIFE IN OUR SOLAR SYSTEM,UNIVERSE,GALAXY. Because metals like steel,titanium & other metals come from a rock ore & need to go thru a rigourous process that humans create to make steel,titanium & other metals. each planet at one point has or had a molten core. their is no such thing as a planet being created/born without a molten core. without a molten core their is no life. molten cores exist on organic planets. even to suggest or think a planet like cybertron in a real life scenario can exist without a molten core is signs of not knowing scientific knowledge of the universe.

All the planets in our solar system,universe,galaxy are are made of rock. what planet cybertron is composed of belongs in science fiction. in real life their is no way various metal would grow,be that shiny form arond a planet like that. metals are in rock ore in order to create some metals like steele,titnaium & other metals they need to be created by man by going thru rigorous man made conditions like super heating,chemicals ,stamping the metals into flat shinny objects & so forth. their is no such thing as living metals that can grow,reproduce,heal itself,have the abilty to cover a entire or a planet being born of living/growing metal.

Edited by Shadowpanther, 24 March 2012 - 11:22 PM.


#10 Shadowpanther

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 11:58 PM


I wrote planet/asteroid in my reply you quoted. when I write this " / " in my reply it means one or the other.

When I mentioned the TF Prime,unicron origins in my reply you quoted. I wasn't saying this is what happened to G-1 unicron & primus. I was saying "This TF Prime,unicron origin story,is what "DIDN'T HAPPEN" With simon furmans's version of primus & unicron's origins.

The "one" needed to be mentioned & is consequential. because the "one",when he created both primus & unicron. the "one" created two huge metalic robots with god like powers. the "one" needs to be mentioned in this thread. because both unicron & primus smashed into asteroids. had the "one" not created primus & unicron in metalic robot forms. both primus & unicron would have never shaped their asteriod prisions into metalic planets. it's because of the "one" giving primus & unicron god like powers they were able to re-shape their asteriod prisions into something better.


Reread what I said about "The One" Simon Furman has never said anything about it being god. So what online fans say it is is inconsequential. All Simon has said is it is the "Sentient Core of the Universe." Not god
you say planet/asteroid. I am correcting you because it was an Asteroid that Primus got stuck in just like Unicron got stuck in one. Not a planet, so there was no need to do the whole Planet/Asteroid thing
TF Prime should not have even been mentioned as it is the G1 Marvel Origin Version that is accepted for all continuities regarding Primus and Unicron
The One did not create, "Two Huge Metallic Robots." The one created Unicron and Primus. It was after both Unicron and Primus got stuck in their respective asteroids. That they each created their own robot forms.

EDIT - By the way Shadowpanther, you said planet with no mention of asteroid in your first post :wave


Sometimes not everything will be spelled out for you. sometimes you've got to read thru the lines,grab the hints & come to your own conclusion. Simon furman in the ultimate guide book describes the "one" like the jewish earth bible descibes God. Simon furman in the ultimate guide book describes the "one" like the various Star trek alien races descibes the one God.

in the simon furman ultimate guide book. their are art sketches of both primus & unicron in their pre forms before they smashed into their asteriods prisions. both primus & unicron in their pre-forms in the ultimate guide book are clearly drawn looking like huge metalic robots. the "one" clearly didn't create primus & unicron in their pre-forms as huge organic beings.

regarding the planets or asteriods thing. asteriods are tiny fragments of what once use to be a planet. planets collide into each other all the time & the crash/explosion creates asteroids.

Edited by Shadowpanther, 24 March 2012 - 11:59 PM.





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